I first came across Governmentgetgfs when someone posted an image of his rant about his parents to an irc:
Governmentgetgfs is an incel, which in his own words is
“ Involuntary celibacy (colloquially incel) is chronic near-total or total absence in a person’s sexuality of intimate relationships or sexual intercourse that is occurring for reasons other than voluntary celibacy, asexuality, antisexualism, or sexual abstinence. It is the psycho-social opposite of having a sex life. Incel people, despite being open to sexual intimacy and potential romance with another person and also making active, repeated efforts towards such an end, cannot cause any such end(s) to occur with any significant degree of regularity—or even at all. ”
Whilst I have yet to explore some of the opinions of other incels, Governmentgetgfs provides an interesting worldview of the entire subculture. What follows is, in his own words as much as possible, some of the answers to questions put to him by me. I will include links to his redditAMA and his blog at the end of this entry. I will provide a follow up article detailing the important questions, answers and points of these 2 links in a follow up post.
Governmentgetgfs has asked for me to correct any grammar and spelling in his posts since english is not his first language. Please bear with any I have missed, or better yet message me letting me know!
- Approach women with romantic intent
- Reciprocate any interest without the girl expressing it directly and without her constantly encouraging me
- Recognize any indicators of interest.One guy told me that he suffered the same thing, that same fear and horrible feeling in the stomach and that it’s natural. I told him- fellow, that is not love-shyness. Love-shyness is when you can’t even get yourself to fear such fear because can’t get yourself to even consider doing anything about any woman. For example, my first kiss was a disaster- I couldn’t bear to kiss the girl so she had to do it herself, despite being only 15. I reacted with such fear that I moved my mouth away from hers. I did meet one woman who was very aggressive in showing interest back in 2007. When I, unfortunately, screwed up with her it took me 2 years to get over it, 2 years during which I couldn’t approach girls at all and just cried about her. It went on even when I found my first girlfriend who I kissed. I was too afraid to have sex with her and she was also very shy so we broke up after 8 months, never having sex. I finally defeated my love-shyness in 2011, when I was already 23, by saying to myself “Dammit, just feel the fear and do it anyway”. The fact that I considered her ugly and didn’t really care about her reaction helped too. Since then I am no longer love-shy. I mean, I kissed this girl in 2011 with no encouragement from her side and with her not kissing me first.
It got worse when I started college because that summer before college was when I met the aggressive girl I’ve talked about. I made a mistake and blew my chances with her and that devastated me. I saw her as a lottery winning ticket, which in many ways she was. My first two years in college were all about mourning our potential relationship. When I finally did meet my first girlfriend in 2009 the trouble didn’t end there- after initial ecstasy of having a girlfriend the sex part became a big difficulty as I couldn’t initiate it and neither did she. She left me in 2010 and I was devastated. It took me almost 2 more years before I finally lost my virginity. It was all really, really painful.
As for other violence, I used to fantasize about shooting random people and leaving a manifesto describing my incel and blaming my parents and the government for not wanting to help me. But I told myself that I will not do it now but when I turn something like 27 or 30 and nothing changes.
I think many incels feel this way and I saw them express it in incel communities. Unfortunately, what they get from the mainstream people is mostly insults and suggestions to go to therapy. I’ve never seen therapy help any incel. There have been long discussions on therapy on incel communities and not one of them said it helped him in any way. I don’t think you can be cured in any way as long as you’re incel- it’s not a normal state to be in.
On the other hand, there were times when I was just suicidal and these happened a lot more often than the times I felt homicidal. I just felt extreme pain and loneliness. I tried to commit suicide once, in January 2009, shortly before I met a girl who was to become my first girlfriend (the one I didn’t have sex with). I was mourning this aggressive one for almost 2 years, had no prospects of any girlfriend in sight and felt it’s all a bit too much. But today I’m glad I didn’t die by taking those pills.
As for your second question, it depends how long he has no luck with getting sex. A guy who went out and got rejected once isn’t incel if he can get girls in reasonable intervals. But a guy who can’t get a girl for 6 months and more against his will- I would consider him an incel.
I asked my mother to have sex with me during that horrible year of 2011 out of pure desperation twice and once in 2012, again out of sheer frustration and desperation. I never tried to rape her or claimed she owes to me, I just asked for that as an act of mercy.
I would never repeat it again now that I have had sex with 3 girls.
Just to add- I talked to that one girl for 3 months online every day. But she wasn’t in the country. 3 days after she came back she found a boyfriend and told me we could only go on coffee as friends. I was very disappointed and angry.
“Program for treating involuntary celibacy
Many incel men can’t even get a date on dating sites and are constantly rejected if they cold approach or express interest in women they meet through their social circle.
Government should offer women money to go on blind dates. These women would freely apply for such program, as would incel men. Every woman would have a limit of 30 dates. If she doesn’t find a suitable partner during those 30 days she will be fired to prevent scammers – however, she would be paid the full sum, as would a woman who finds a partner during one of these 30 dates.
Using this program, many involuntary celibate men would get their first date or improve their chances of finding a partner.
Program for treating love-shyness
Love-shyness is a phobia of approaching women with romantic intention or asserting yourself romantically/sexually on a date, combined, in some cases, with a phobia reciprocating romantic interest. It must not be confused with mere social phobia. Psychologist Brian G. Gilmartin wrote a book on it called Shyness and Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatments in 1987. The fact that Dr. Gilmartin occasionally supports his claims with astrology and other pseudo-sciences cannot be used to discredit the claims which are based on real evidence; remember that Isaac Newton gave us alchemical and religious texts along with the calculus and gravitational theory.
Due to their phobia, love-shy males can’t be treated as pure incel males. In order for them to be cured their erotophobia must be defeated. To achieve this goal women, all of whom would freely apply and be paid for it, would teach these men how to cuddle and kiss – which, to most of them, would be their first experience of these things. In the end, once their phobia has receded, there would be an option of these women sleeping with them, but only if both parties agree. If any of these males refuse to have their first time that way their wishes would be respected, same if any of the women refuse to have sex with a male.
This program would eliminate love-shyness. After it is completed formerly love-shy participants could join a program for incels or try meeting women on their own.
If these programs worked same programs might be opened for homosexual men and women.”
What I’d like to add is that these programs would be much more better in fighting incel than some private dating agency is. Many of these agencies are expensive, some are scammers, most operate locally, in some countries they don’t even exist. It’s not the same thing as a government dating agency. Especially in that part about dealing with love-shy men, whose phobia needs to be dealt with first. Many are too shy to visit a prostitute and some prostitutes are pretty rough women who could make things worse for them. Girls in this program would be educated about what love-shyness is and be patient with these men.
Birth rates are already falling, especially in many countries of the “Old Europe” and if we continue down this path white plague, or sub-replacement fertility will eventually become a huge problem. Incels are mostly highly educated and intelligent, it would be a shame to exclude them from the gene pool.
Most prostitutes can’t slowly introduce you to sex in a way a love-shy person requires. They’re only interested in getting your money and for you to finish quickly.
Also, the dating part of it isn’t offered by either prostitutes or sex therapists.
That’s a good idea but they don’t exist everywhere. But I like this idea and will add it to my program.
They also claim that I’m insane for wanting government intervention on behalf of other incels because they think everybody can find a girlfriend on his own and those who can’t shouldn’t have one at all.
They reacted to my relationships as if I entered them when I should have, at 16-17. They just don’t get it. They’re pretty uneducated and simple people.
My parents are comparing my brother with me, but in an awful way. They keep saying “Look at your brother, he isn’t sad because he doesn’t have a girlfriend! He just jacks off and keeps going! You’re such a whiny pussy, you should be like him!” Thus ignoring the fact that he’s much more abnormal than me simply because he doesn’t make trouble or complain like I do. Idiots.
As for girlfriends/fuck buddies I have discussed it with some of them but it usually didn’t really go anywhere. Even if they agreed with me what could they do? And most of them just couldn’t understand how hard it is for men. My current fuck buddy is way too much of a simpleton to discuss this with her. She wouldn’t be scared or anything, she’d just be confused.
I am all for equality, but you cannot talk of equality when there is a war on men in Western societies. I’ve seen examples of it in my own country, when the father of a children whose mother was a drug addict had to fight for years to get custody, which cost his daughters 380 school hours or when a woman who murdered her husband got three years in jail.
As for feminisms attitude towards incel, in theory incels should support feminism as it wants to diminish the traditional roles of the sexes. In practice, which doesn’t follow feminist nonsense, incels are called entitled, whiny losers by feminists, who don’t care about male problems at all. You’re incel? Go kill yourself, you creep. That’s what most feminists really think.
I get regular attacks from feminists on my blog for most trivial reasons, like calling a girl fat or ugly. They called my program a desire for sex slaves. They simply disgust me.
This is the end of my brief conversation with Governmentgetgfs, though I hope to ask him more questions at a later date to find out more about this subculture and condition, as well as other incels like him.